This is a discussion I have been meaning to have for a long, long time. With a musician who has long maintained my curiosity since a girl I was dating at the time threw on 'Join' that beautiful day we got into a car accident in earthly Lake Place, NY. It was fitting. Ever since then my love goes faster than a rocket for Dan…He was brave and kind enough to let me bother the shit out of him for a few days. This is the conversation that took place.
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SHOM) Hi Dan, before we get too deep and cerebral into our discussion let’s just start with; If you were to write your own epitaph, what would you have it say?
DS) I thought you said we wouldn't get deep this soon! (laughs) All I would want it to say is "Proud Father".
SHOM) This has been bothering me for years, what the hell do you say at the beginning of the song ‘P.C.B. 98’?
DS) "Hey, Shitboy! Whatcha gonna do now?" At the time I was working at Domino's Pizza. I used to work with several gentleman from Turkey. English was their second language, and they hadn't quite grasped the art of curse words. They knew that "shit" could be used as an insult; they also knew that calling someone "boy" is degrading. When they wanted to insult you, they would call you "shit boy". I thought this was an absolutely glorious insult I had never heard anyone else use before. It became an inside joke in the workplace. I was joking around with John Reis, then it became our inside joke. To this day we still call each other shit boy. I don't know man. It was just funny at the time. I didn't think the joke would have legs, but I still say it to this day.
SHOM) I know you created the crack-whip sound on the Western Hill’s ‘Rawhide’ by slamming a slab of meat from the butcher shop you work at onto a mic’d up concrete floor, so what was the technique for the crack-whip sound on the earlier Dudesblood’s ‘Rawhide Moon’?
DS) The answer to this one may not be as exciting as you were expecting. We just used some stock sound.
SHOM) With Western Hills you’re up to 10 studio albums and you’ve had an impressive two-decade run as a heavily DIY lone musician from Beatle burnin’ Alabama, what has been the best and worst part of this experience so far for you?
DS) You know, the Beatles burning thing is really embarrassing. But there is another side to the story. The man you're referring to was named Tommy Charles. He was a radio DJ in Birmingham for very many years. They never actually burned Beatles records in Birmingham though. The fire marshal shut that down. Any footage you see of burning Beatles records did not take place in Birmingham. Birmingham has a very shameful history, especially in the 1960s. If I may, I would like to play Devil's Advocate on behalf of Tommy Charles. Tommy Charles was a friend to rock and roll. He spun early rock and roll records in my hometown live on the radio as early as rock and roll records were made. I guess you could call him a shock jock. By the time the Beatles came around, rock and roll was 10 years old. I think for guys like Tommy Charles The Beatles represented a Changing of the Guard. For the original rock and rollers, it made them uncomfortable and feel threatened. It seems quite silly now.
As a person from Birmingham that loves old rock and roll records, I've had internal struggles about my feelings for Tommy Charles. On the one hand, he brought rock and roll to the airwaves. On the other, he was kind of an asshole for what he did. I'm a huge Beatles fan but I also have space in my heart for Tommy Charles. I believe at the end of the day he was a show-man. I think the whole Beatle burning thing was a publicity stunt and he didn't foresee this being his lasting Legacy. They never actually burned Beatles records in Birmingham. What he did do was have a lot of Beatles records steamrolled and buried in a small town east of Birmingham called Roebuck. I never met Tommy Charles, but I have many friends that knew him. They said that he had no hate for the Beatles. What he did have was a lot of PT Barnum in him. He just wanted attention and ratings, and he got it. I don't think the criticism of him is unfair, but I do think that it is unfair to paint him as a enemy of rock and roll.
Birmingham is a weird town. It's my home and I don't really want to live anywhere else. That's not to say that I don't have my problems with it to this day. At this point it's just the devil I know. I've always found it to be cliquey. I never felt fully accepted there. You kind of have to go out a lot and kiss everyone's butt and tell them they're great in order to have people at your shows. It's like a goddamn abusive relationship. But I always come back, and I always love it.
SHOM) Back in 2014 you and Jacob Turnbloom of Mrs. Magician gave birth to a little side-project that had you release a great two-song EP. Did you guys mean for this to just be a one-off or were there plans for more in the future that have never came to fruition?
DS) Jacob is a strange guy. I absolutely love him. We have exchanges at least once a week. He always writes me and has these kooky ideas. He's one of the most prolific musicians I know personally. Most of the ideas that he or I have never come to fruition. Sometimes they do. There's a lot of distance between Birmingham and San Diego. I tried to live in San Diego a couple times. It never really worked out. I still feel like my greatest musical soulmates live there. I count Jacob among them. All those Southern California guys are so laid-back it makes me wonder how they get anything done at all. Somehow they always do. I honestly believe that some of the greatest music of my lifetime was created there. Those people are goal-oriented, but super chill at the same time. I guess the two things don't have to be mutually exclusive. When you travel a lot your heart gets spread out. A big piece of my heart will always reside in San Diego.
DS)
The Geto Boys. We can't be stopped.
SHOM) Your 6th record ‘Too Tough To Live’ was Dan at full down-stroke Ramones mode, would you say this phase came in more as a necessary means of catharsis following ‘Lives’ or was it as simple as you getting a runners high off the down-stroke?
DS) After we made Dan Sartain Lives with Liam Watson at toe rag Studios, I felt like that was my pinnacle. I learn so much from Liam. After working with him it was like a demon was exorcised. I felt like he got the best out of me in that vein of music. Basically I felt like I couldn't top that. It was time to switch modes completely. I was coming to the end of my twenties and the beginning of my thirties, and I wanted to hang on to my youth. I felt like doing everything harder and faster would be my Fountain of Youth. I allowed myself to nurture my most juvenile thoughts. In a way, that phase of my career also felt like an exorcism. I didn't want to be a whiny emotional arthouse rockabilly kid anymore. I felt the need to prove myself in other ways. To whom I felt the need to prove myself, I don't know. I didn't feel like my previous formula was so precious that I couldn't change it.
SHOM) I saw an interview with you and a German skeleton during a tumultuous time that had you teary-eyed and honest as hell, so I have to ask, what albums do you think are the envenom for a broken heart?
DS) that was a tough time for me. I was Rife with inner turmoil. I was going through a breakup and I hadn't realized yet that behaving that way only alienated my friends. I was disappointed that working with The White Stripes didn't really lead to bigger things for me. Now I realize that it was my expectations, and that alone, which was causing my inner turmoil. I was still at a point in my life where I blamed everything else for my problems rather than take accountability for them. I felt like I was expected to always overachieve. Mentally I had to move the goalposts in order to feel like I was winning. I not only looked at music as a competition, but an all out War. I realize now that that was a ridiculous thought. I was taking myself way too seriously.
To answer your question though, The Ramones brought me out of it. Specifically the demo version of 'I don't care'. It's not like that was my first Ramones phase, but it suddenly hit me like a ton of bricks. That footage you were talking about with the skeleton was actually taken at the Ramones Museum in Berlin. It is a small but staggering Museum. I guess I didn't fully realize the power of simplicity until that point. I also didn't fully appreciate the complexity of what the Ramones were actually doing. It seems simple, but I know very complex musicians that couldn't hang in the Ramones. For instance Clem Burke from Blondie was the drummer for The Ramones for one show before he was fired. Clem Burke is a very respected person in his field. He's among the most celebrated drummers I can think of. He couldn't hang with the Ramones though.
SHOM) It’s well documented that you have a penchant for all things old and eccentric, is there anything in the modern world you love and champion that might be a surprise to those of us who only know the surface level you?
DS) I do certainly like old things, old ideals not so much. I don't know how to say this without pussyfooting around the subject… but I like being able to eat in a restaurant and go to movies with black people.
SHOM) Has your daughter shown an increased interest in music as she gets older? What tunes get her goin’?
A) my daughter absolutely loves music. Even at Age 3 she has very diverse taste. Friends since one of her favorite songs is Pineapple Princess by Annette Funicello. She likes all that Disney princess stuff too. She's obsessed with the Wizard of Oz and Dorothy, but she also really likes Buddy Holly. I hope she doesn't follow in my footsteps toward a Rock and Roll Lifestyle. I hope for better things for her than that. Rock and roll is fun and everything, but making it your identity the way I did is stupid.
SHOM) Is there an unexpected moment from any song existing in the ether that you can pin down as your favourite or just something that makes you smile ever time you hear it? I think of Lee Hazelwood’s quip at the end of the song ‘Greyhound Bus Depot’ of “Look at her standin’ there with chilli all over her dress... if I knew her better I’d get her a puppy.”
DS) once a song is recorded and published, I don't ever want to listen to it again. By the time my songs reach the ears of the public they are dead to me. Occasionally I'll listen to them so that I can remember how to play them live, but they aren't a part of "Who I Am" anymore. My latest recording is always my favorite. I got to work with one of my favorite artists, Ganksta Nip. Nip has become a friend of mine over the years. He is a rap Legend. I've gotten to work with many great artists throughout the years, but this guy invented an entire sub-genre of rap music. He has gold and platinum records on his walls, but somehow I never made it out of the Underground. Our Song "Where is Candyman" is currently my favorite song. Until the next one.
SHOM) How did the collaboration with Ganksta Nip come about? You’re not the type to be bogged down by comfort-zones and all but did working with thee progenitor of Horrorcore feel like it came with its own set of unique intimidations and limitations or did you just make like Alan Vega and do whatever the fuck your wanted to?
DS) His real name is Rowdy. I think we're on a first-name basis now, (laughs). We've been friends for several years now. I was a fan of his before I even knew about him. Let me explain. He wrote some of the best music for
The Geto Boys. I suspect that he ghost wrote a lot more songs that I like that he wasn't credited for. I've always been a big fan of rap, but I respected it as an art form enough to stay out of it. Until now. I always wanted to work with Rowdy, but I could never come up with a good enough idea to justify making it happen. I attempted to work with him several times, but the ideas I had weren't good enough. When the trailer for the new Candyman movie came out, I wrote him to get his thoughts on it. He seemed as excited about it as I was. It's a good trailer. I hope the movie is just as good. When I knew that we were both excited about Candyman returning, I guess I knew it was time to make something actually happen. I didn't really want to rap, but I didn't feel like a guitar sample was a good enough reason to put my name on the release alongside his. I decided to step up to the plate and try to rap. Who cares if I get made fun of. Who cares if I sound out a place. I'm secure enough in my place as an artist to step out of my comfort zone, as you said. I'll rap in my car. I'll rap in the shower. Why not do it in front of a microphone?
I knew if I put my name on it, a small but loyal fanbase would pay attention. I've got to work with lots of great musicians, but Rowdy invented something. He invented something that people still copy, even if they don't know it's him They're copying. He's still putting out good material. He might be better than he ever was. I know he feels he is. Some of his newer work is some of his best. I just want more people to know about him. He said some pretty crazy stuff. He's just a normal guy though. He likes horror movies and video games just like everyone else. He has a unique gift. I think he really stands apart from his peers. I respect him as a poet. I know that's really strange to say considering his lyrical content. I find beauty in it. I find humor in it. I love that he has no filter at all when it comes to writing lyrics. I just wish he had a wider base. He has gold and platinum selling records on his wall, but he still remains unknown to many people. I find that unacceptable. If there's anything I can to get his name out there, I'm going to do it. I've never really tried to be an artist that made political statements. I really respect artists that do, I just never wanted to be one.
This Record came out the same week the riots happened due to George Floyd's death. Where is Candyman is not a political song in in any way. It just happened to coincide with the movement that is currently happening. As shallow as the song is, I felt it was our message of racial Unity. At the end of the day, it's just a couple of guys that really like Candyman. The time frame in which it came out is coincidence. We could have made this 6 years ago, or six years from now. I'm glad it came out when it did. It was not intended to be a statement, but Rowdy and I both acknowledged the significance of it in that way.
SHOM) Songs like ‘Mr. Shorty’ by Marty Robbins, ‘A Boy Named Sue’ by Johnny Cash, ‘Talkin’ Karate Blues’ By Townes Van Zandt and of course Alli Guthrie’s ‘Alice’s Restaurant’ all tell of a peculiar story in a sort of a spoken word delivery, do you think you have a song that strikes the same vain? Do you have a favourite within this style?
DS) My speaking voice isn't raspy or cool enough sounding to do something like that. I did try to hire someone to do something like that for Western Hills though. We asked several genre actors to do a song like this with me for Western Hills. We approached William Shatner, and all kinds of people. At one point, Tom Wopat was going to do it. Those talks dissolved, along with our album's budget. If we ever hear back from William Shatner, or Lee Majors, I'll make it happen.
SHOM) Besides the current state of things, what’s stopping you from playing that show at Pasquale’s Pizza? Any chance We’ll get to see you in Canada again or is the chance fat?
DS) I would be too busy stuffing my face to play a show at Pasquale's (laughs). As far as Canada goes I rule nothing out! If you're going from coast to coast in America, playing shows along the Canadian border makes a lot more sense sometimes.
SHOM) Have you got your ears to the ground on the Australian punk scene at all? There’s something in the well water out there, they’re no Hot Snakes but Eddy Current Suppression Ring is getting things done!
DS) I don't know much about any scene anymore. I knew I would get old one day and become out of touch, what I didn't know is that I wouldn't care if I was out of touch.
SHOM) This isn’t a question, just wanted to thank you for turning me into the demo version of ‘I Don’t Care’, it’s so dismissively snotty and primitive!
DS) It's one of those things that is so simple, you hate yourself for not coming up with it. Even though that song was written before I was born, I'm envious of how stupid and effective it is.
SHOM) Chuck Berry once duckwalked his way over to you at a Casino show when you were a youngster and sang to you, do you think that had a significant impact on you in anyway?
DS) I wasn't that young. I was 25ish when that happened. He was already my hero at that point. I did see Jerry Lee Lewis when I was really young. He came out and played the halftime show for a minor league football team in Birmingham. I didn't really care at the time. I think I just wanted the cheerleaders two come back out. (laughs)
SHOM) How have you been spending the last 5 months besides putting out a new record and running a historical barbershop? Any silver linings to this strange time for you to draw upon?
DS) Life has become incredibly difficult for me during this time. I'm facing some of the most heavy obstacles I've ever faced. My needs mean very little in the grand scheme of things. I did get to record and you record at Sun Records in Memphis, which was a dream come true. I haven't really been the same person since we did it. It made me feel like anyting in the world that I want is at my disposal. It made me feel like I can manifest anything I put my mind to. If this is the end of the world, arrivederci, baby. I had a blast.
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SHOM) I ended our few days of messaging back and forth with the following:
DS) Right on, Chris! If I figure it out I'll let you know. I'm just in the same boat as everyone else. Writing has always been my outlet, and I'm doing more of that now. My best to you and yours. Thank you for your thoughtful questions, it's nice to know that people are still paying attention to me after all these years!
Dan released an album this year and as always it's well worth your time, energy, money and complete focused concentration.
Here is the "Where is Candyman?" song released this year by Ganksta Nip and Dan Sartain:
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