Part 02—Interview with Peregrinus of Heraldic Blaze (Unholy Craft, Illvilje, Hjemsøkt, Ûlairi)

 

This discussion between Peregrinus is the continuation from Part 01 with a large bulk of it carrying-off within the same timeline as Part 01, but with little gaps of time in between. When I learned Heraldic Blaze was releasing their debut full-length later in the year, I thought it would make sense to release Part 02 after its release and that way I could cherry-pick a few questions to ask Peregrinus regarding the process on that new album, 'Monument of Will'—The intention was never to release this two-part discussion with Peregrinus in nearly a full years span, that lag was on my end and not on Peregrinus'… but in a way it's fitting that we started the new year with Part 01 and now we are ending the solar cycle and starting anew with Part o2. Lot's on the horizon of 2026 for Peregrinus and his swath of work…

•  †  •

Picking up where we left off from Part 01 back in March—If you missed that you can read it here Peregrinus Part 01

SHOM) Peregrinus and I were having a short back and forth about the guitar sound on 'Blazoned Heraldry' where I was describing the sound as shifting between triumphant, melancholic, antiquated, raw and melodic with a palpable driving heft carrying the tone…

Peregrinus) I think part of the guitar sound is derived from discovering early punk stuff like the Jam, and the intensity of driving guitars didn’t come from high distortion sound but the driven jangle and a hard working picking hand. That sort of vibe was part of the sound we wanted to achieve. I’ve also heard surf mentioned… which has never been on my radar, but I can understand the sonic similarities.

SHOM) Maybe between the tremolo picking in combination with a delay/overdrive effect could harken to similar sentimentalities found in surf-rock… You mention early punk such as The Jam, what are some other influences outside of metal that have shaped your musicianship?

Peregrinus) Quite a well dissected view of the guitar sounds. I definitely was looking to achieve some of that “old” amp sound that existed before the high drive amps made their splash… I remember playing on some old (small) peavey combos or even Yamaha amps from the 70’s when I was a kid. Those were the first amps I could afford, and I had to crank them HARD to get that driven distorted sound. These were the dynamics I was looking for—I’m always looking into new guitar sounds, I think that just comes with sitting in a studio.

I’m probably like most my age, a product of my times in my youth. I grew up finding the likes of Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Iron Maiden, Thin Lizzy and like all the other old Norwegian guys KISS—whom were especially big here in Norway in the early 80’s. From there it eventually went into more extreme guitar based music like Slayer and all of the early Thrash stuff parallel with checking out some early UK Punk stuff and the early American Hardcore stuff. I was devouring anything that felt underground and extreme…

All that stuff has stayed with me, and in general, excited me about making music and exploring sounds while I'm writing & recording. Listening to and hearing Burzum for the first time in 1992 made my head spin and got my attention like no other extreme music had done before that, and it has stuck with me ever since.

SHOM) Can you expand on which bands in particular from the UK Punk and American Hardcore scene made its way to you in Norway? 

Peregrinus) I heard The Clash and The Jam through my uncle when I was very young. I think he also had some Buzzcocks in his record collection next to all his Sabbath and Led Zeppelin records. He was probably responsible for my introduction into the heavier/alternative side of music. As far as American Hardcore goes, all of those early 80’s bands: Misfits, SSD, Negative Approach, Minor Threat, Youth of Today. Those were all pretty “common favourites” among the young and adventurous music seeking guys I was growing up with. It would go back and forth between the classic thrash stuff and Black Sabbath. A lot of the 1st wave black metal stuff is like Black Sabbath paired with a hardcore/punk beat.

SHOM) At some point In-between the last question and this one, you have suddenly released two new albums under two different bands: Hjemsøkt and Illvilje. It's worth noting that when I heard both of them I had no clue they were projects you were involved in… Those are both excellent releases, can you elucidate on how these two bands took shape and (if possible) provide an anecdote about each album?

Peregrinus) Yeah, these two recent releases have been in the works for a while. They were worked on by me in parallel through 2024, depending on which album had the most momentum—And by momentum I mean material to be worked on. Both of these projects, although conceived by me are collaborative efforts. Illvilje more than Hjemsøkt. Hjemsøkt is still very much dependent on me doing all of the writing, arrangements for drums and vocals, as well as the mixing, etc. Where as with Illvilje, it's a much more collaborative “normal” band style approach to writing and we’re leaning even more into that direction going forward. Both of these projects were conceived within somewhat the same timeframe though.

Like you and I talked about earlier, I like to work on music in a particular way. Focusing in and finishing up the writing part especially, within a condensed timeframe as possible. I feel that doing it this way usually brings great cohesive feeling to the material and the passion and transmitting of creativity into music only grows through the process…

Doing things in a collaborative way with everyone bringing in their own parts makes me work on my patience and for practical purposes this allows for parallel projects, like the Illvilje & Hjemsøkt albums.

It was quite interesting hearing what both Lord G & Hätsk brought in and it made the whole sound of the album come together. When the band initially was started it was meant to be a two piece project between Lord G and I with a more lo-fi obscure sound. That quickly then evolved as we started piecing together songs and then adding Hätsk we had a sound that just evolved into itself. It’s that dark, cold and meditative feeling—a presence… death that calls.

The  Hjemsøkt album is meant to be a distilled and mixed sound of some of the most important pieces of music to me and their associated moods and atmosphere. Again all the music and writing and arrangements I did over the span of something like a week and then I spent the time waiting for the drums to be recorded by MW working on the Illvilje album and the same again while waiting for the vocals to be recorded. It’s still the album I’ve spent the most time working on as far as mixing, effectively scrapping the album mix and starting from scratch 3 times.

It’s without a doubt the two biggest projects I have taken on and I think the results deliver on expectations. There’s so much more than having “perfect sound” that weighs in finishing up an album. Atmosphere, urgency & mood is of greater importance in the equation for me—And I feel both albums deliver on that. A great deal of albums don’t in this new era… it’s just “noise”.  That’s what they all got right, back in the storms of 90’s Black Metal. And why it immediately caught my ear back then. The realness and the atmosphere embedded in each album.

SHOM)  I think you nailed it there—“Perfect Sound” is anathema to black metal. This is why a large bulk of listeners are still eager for black metal to stay raw and primitive in the wake of technology.

Hjemsøkt is scratching an itch I didn’t know I had. In the sense that it structurally feels derivative of the more atmospheric and traditional/folk leaning aspects of black metal without getting in the weeds of sounding too polished, or too generic. And by judging your earlier response, it seems like that’s exactly what you were building off of.

Peregrinus) 100%! There’s a rawness and a uniqueness found in the divide between the simple traditional folk elements and that vicious raw and ravenous feel black metal can have.  I think it’s why I’ve always found the early works of Ulver so fascinating.

SHOM) I stopped myself from assuming, but I was going to mention how early Ulver looms large in its essence without it sounding too derivative—This marriage between raw black metal and traditional folk elements is what Vemod has been so successful at creating, in terms of a more modern broader appeal approach.

Peregrinus) I totally agree with Vemod and their capacity to carve out a niche to claim their own. It’s some of the most magnificent black metal from Norway. Love Vemod.

SHOM) And what of Illvilje, which corners or niches of metal is that particular sound most inspired by? It feels more grounded through a more modern approach, but I could be wrong.

Peregrinus) Well, Illvilje has 3 people bringing in individual sources of inspiration for creating their respective parts, so I think it would be more diverse—Vemod had inspired me greatly with their cold and dense as ever enveloping sound. There’s definitely parts of early Hate Forest and Drudkh in there, as well as Branikald too. Alongside Dissection, Emperor, Borknagar, Dødheimsgard. It’s truly an amalgamation of a lot of music that’s been channeled into Illvilje. 

I've gotta say, for me personally, the biggest source of inspiration for writing this album was Kaosritual’s Svøpt Morgenrød. That album, and spending time out in Norway's Nature… Where the presence of life and death is within reach at all times.

SHOM) I rarely ever see Borknagar cited as an influence nowadays but I'm glad to know they still are relevant—In that same vein, Khaoritual’s Svøpt is a real modern classic. Have you pulled from any other influences that might be considered surprising or "unconventional"?

Peregrinus) In my opinion, the first Borknagar album is such a big record… absolute masterpiece. I play it at least once a month, every month. And yes I agree, Kaosritual is one of those undeniable Norwegian gems that I feel, is still surprisingly overlooked… or under appreciated. The repressing's Terratur Possessions made of the LP and demos, the fact that they didn't sell out instantly, is a testament to how skewed things really are within modern black metal. Whatever. (laughs) …That leads into a whole different discussion.

AT THIS POINT IN, THE NEW HERALADIC BLAZE RECORD CAME OUT

SHOM) The Heraldic Blaze debut full-length 'Monuments of Will' is now out, how has/had the writing process between ‘Monument of Will’ changed from the proceeding EP, ‘Blazoned Heraldry’? Were there new insights or methods learned/tweaked this time around?

Peregrinus) Well, nothing in the way the songs were written has really changed from Blazoned Heraldry. Argent Pale has still written the entire album and mapped it out as far as the structure goes. From there I went about doing the guitar sounds and then recording guitars—We wanted a slightly different mood and sound to the guitars so all parts were recorded on two separate instruments. One for the LH & one for the RH.

Then all was sent to the new session drummer Kave. In many ways it’s a lot less processed mix/recording than the first one. Keeping it as organic as possible yet having it have a feral undertone beneath the melodies. A lot more time went into mix than on the first one.

SHOM) That's a cool detail about the guitars. Shifting to two different guitars for left and right channels suggests you were creating tension directly into the stereo field—What atmospheric or narrative purpose did that serve in the context of these songs, comparatively to Blazoned Heraldry?

Peregrinus) There’s a more lead oriented guitar on this album that’s sonically getting its own sound and then by having slightly altered it there’s a persistent "tension" between the left and the right side. Since there really is a lot (nearly constant) of those lead melodies throughout 'Monument of Will' it made more sense to do it like that rather than record on one guitar with one sound and then boosting it whenever a more pronounced lead part would appear.

Hopefully the sum of this approach gives the tracks a little more tension and also holds its own little narrative when parallel to the vocals. I guess the base idea is to have it sound even more like a full band, rather than the work of one player? Which is also the idea here for this album. Make it something more "alive", comparatively to the demo. Which was more of a case of churn it out for black metal, "exotic guitar sound".

I think both Argent Pale and I agreed on having the guitars have a more earthy Sombre tone, compared to the demo 'Blazoned Herladry'—It would be too easy to just copy paste the mix from the demo and I feel it wouldn’t have conveyed the melodies on 'Monument of Will' with the same honesty & purpose.

SHOM) The intention to split the guitars into opposing sides as a means to create tension and anchor the main melodic leads, leaves me wondering how you approached writing around the more prominent powerful hooks of the flute? Did Argent Pale write in the wind-instrument melodies first or were they sculpted off a riff?

Peregrinus) That’s more of a question for Argent Pale…

…But I would say it’s the main melody of the song that sets the foundation of where the flute goes. So in instances on the record you even have it as an orchestrated 3 piece duel. With the two guitars and the flute weaving in and out in parallel within each others melodies. It's pretty much doing what some of the classic rock and heavy metal duel lead work did with early Kiss, Thin Lizzy and Iron Maiden. Which is the stuff I grew up on in the mid 80’s when my interest in music really took hold. 

Then add the flute with an old music approach and the stage is set for something pretty unique. The compositions of AP really took a big stride on this album as far as delivering a story. Maybe not immediately recognizable on the surface but this album’s foundation is written with grief & death as the main antagonists.

SHOM) And finally, what sort of things should we be looking out for in 2026 on your side of releases/output? 

Peregrinus) Upcoming plans are basically the same for 2026 as they were in 2025—To continue writing and releasing music. Honing and sharpening the craft and hopefully coming out with something that exceeds what came before it. I have a Sort Storm Full length in works, and will be writing for Hjemsøkt & Illvilje in the upcoming first half of 2026. After that we’ll see where it all goes…

A New Heraldic Blaze album is also already in the works. And as far as the label Sonorous Night goes there’s plenty of plans: Look out for the Jøtul debut full length. A Heathendom Full length is also coming. The 2nd Mysterium Demo and finally working on completing Vol.1 of the label's comp…There’s plenty of other stuff in the pipeline as well.

•  Ω  •

END OF PART. 02—Eternal Hails.

Heraldic Blaze - Monument of Will (Bandcamp)

Ûlairi - Winter Infernal (Bandcamp)

Illvilje - Der Nordavinden Danser (Bandcamp)

Hjemsøkt - Om Vinteren, På En Sort Trone (Bandcamp)

Unholy Craft - Saa Mørkt, Saa Mektig (Bandcamp)

KVAD - I Et Uendelig Mørke (Bandcamp)

Sonorous Night (Bandcamp)

Part 01—Interview with Peregrinus of Heraldic Blaze (Unholy Craft, Illvilje, Hjemsøkt, Ûlairi)

This discussion between Peregrinus and I took shape organically by way of a conversation he and I were initially having about the new Avmakt album and how much it feels like a "A Blaze in the Northern Sky' songs with the production and lens of 'Under A Funeral Moon'—We both agreed this was something the two of us were digging in the scope of second-wave black metal…Which then, bled into me explaining how much I have been playing the new Heraldic Blaze record 'Blazoned Heraldry'. And from there we just had a long back and forth about his creative contributions to what Argent Pale was conceiving in one of my favourite Demo's from last year (2024).

•  †  •

Here is that conversation, verbatim as it took place through a series of back and forth's across a few weeks time:

SHOM) (Explaining my total appreciation for 'Blazoned Heraldry')

Peregrinus) Thanks man, I'm stoked to hear you’re into that album—We’ve started recording the full length follow-up but it’s still a ways out from being finished… We need a few more songs and a lot of work. It will be a 2025 release. [Note: This was said months ago—Things have advanced since then.]

SHOM) Happy to hear it—Will you be doing more wind instruments in the coming full–length? That's something in the Demo that goes a long way for me—It's a subtle enough inclusion, but a lost art nowadays and for good reason. It often doesn’t work. Not the case on 'Blazoned Heraldry'.

Peregrinus) There will be wind instruments on the next one, absolutely. All of those are done by AP after we have the songs pieced together and have a somewhat finished mix.

SHOM) You're in Norway and Argent Pale is in the United States, so I'm curious about the process of writing new material—Do you send stuff over to AP and vice versa and just take it from there?

Peregrinus) It’s a bit of a back and forth process. all of the melodies and “riffs” are written by AP on keys. I then adapt them to guitar and figure out strumming/rythm patterns for the guitars and record them. We then build from there. And I sit with the production and figure out the “sound” by using AP’s vision for the album and we go back and forth using two pairs of ears to get it right.

This new album is going in a little bit of a different direction sound wise with the guitar. Think more Bethlehem / somber reverby and echoed… should be another interesting sounding album. It would be too easy to just copy what we did on the first album.

SHOM) Excuse my ignorance here, but I’m assuming the wind instruments are samples? Or is Argent Pale playing an actual flute/whistle? Also, how does the back and forth across the pond take shape to form Heraldic Blaze… And what are the major drawbacks or benefits of it being international?

Peregrinus) All the wind instruments recorded for Heraldic Blaze are done as analog recordings with actual flute and whistles by Argent Pale.

The way we went about it, recording the first demo/mlp, was by sending tracks back and forth between U.S and Norway, as each piece/part was recorded. All the material is written by AP and then channeled into guitars, which is recorded by me here in Norway. Then piece by piece it is built out into a complete track, as we develop the song towards a final mix.

The impetus for Heraldic Blaze is all AP. The music/Vision is something she had been working on for a good long while but never (due to a few failed attempts) gotten the project fully up on its feet yet, when our paths crossed. A bunch of older material was scrapped in the process of starting anew and then the process of creating the MLP ensued—I see my role in HB more than anything as a facilitator of sound. I have my own projects that I do, that delivers other types of black metal then what HB is.

That allows me to focus solely on how the guitars are played and their sound. I think it’s important for the sound of HB that what is put into writing the music is a singular and pure vision of what it should be and AP is the driving creative force for that.

As far as drawbacks/benefits…
Time is definitely a drawback.. it takes time to work this way and it’s easy to lose momentum—I am a firm believer in capturing the sound while the fires of creativity are burning and raging. It’s too easy to lose that if tracks sit too long incomplete… It will often imprint itself onto the music and the sound when the flames have faded into cold dead stillness.

SHOM) Major props to AP on that. Blazoned Heraldry has been something of a wake-up call for me, being one of the very few recent albums in BM to reinvigorate my affinity to wind instruments as an overt inclusion—And AP performing all of that analog somehow bolsters that even further.

Do you remember when and how your paths crossed and when the two of you decided to execute on Heraldic Blaze?

Peregrinus) I got involved in HB via a mutual friend of AP and myself. He was to be part of the final attempt at putting those first HB tracks down. But that also was stranded which left AP and me. so we decided to do it from scratch, just the two of us, with new tracks and a fully clean slate to start from.

SHOM) Circling back to how you get to focus solely on guitars and how they sound, which proverbial itches do you get to scratch playing in Heraldic Blaze that you couldn't from any of your other avenues, if any?

Peregrinus) With that in mind Heraldic Blaze opened another Avenue for me creatively, interpreting someone else’s writing through my playing and then bringing AP’s sonic vision of what HB should sound like to life..not saying that I don’t have input or voice my opinion on songs and sounds but bottom line is I try to have everything be as close to the creators vision for HB.

I guess it’s pretty evident in the MLP that there is a different approach than just engaging tremolo picking and blasting through the riffs..I think the songs on the first MLP lended itself towards high tension strumming and finer picking.. now I’ll be the first to admit I categorize myself as a poor technical player. It’s all bordering on capability, all the time. And that brings a certain tension I think, in the sound, that makes the songs come more alive. Haavard from Ulver is someone who is a great inspiration in what I play in HB. The traverse from delicate acoustic picking to flat out tremolo annihilation on those early Ulver records is transcendental.

SHOM) You have very clearly been on a creative spurt, putting out something to the tune of 10+ records in either the format of EP, Demo, LP across your many avenues—What was it that made you interested in doing this with AP?

Peregrinus) I’m very much driven by my creativity. If I feel something is interesting and resonates with me I just let go and follow the current, so to speak. A lot of people, I feel, mistake high output of material as trying too hard… which isn't the case at all. It’s no different writing a song than it is painting a painting. Looking at the greats of the past, it’s preposterous to think that some of those master painters would limit themselves to one painting a year..usually you will see them depict in their studio surrounded by their own creations.

Here in Norway especially Munch or Kittelsen comes to mind.. just endless sketches, paintings and ideas brought into life. If you don’t work at it, how can you become better and more skilled? This is how I view writing music and working on my mixes.

And to put a final word towards the multiple projects. They all serve a specific purpose to me and live in their own sonic sphere. The moment those spheres burst and lines become blurred and things start to sound the same. It’s over. When I feel I’ve explored the individual paths to their respective ends the project terminates. Currently I can feel all of them beckoning me, to continue travels down their respective dark twisted paths.

SHOM) I think that's a fair way to look at it from a creative output side of things, I'm healthily skeptical towards exuberant output but there's enough proof out there to prove me wrong.

Speaking of achievement and Norwegian artists like Munch or Kittelsen, is there an entrenched culture within Norway towards a strong work ethic—And to further piggyback on that, what's the musical landscape like in your area of Norway? Is there still a growing scene in within black metal or does it remain insular and underground?

Peregrinus) Skepticism is not an unhealthy "crutch" while approaching anything I think, and seeing and also hearing what's getting put out is a valid stance to take—So I see what you're saying.

Norway I think has always had a high work ethic amongst its population... It was a harsh and cold country right from the start.

As far as the musical scene goes BM definitely has changed since it emerged in the early 90’s. It’s definitely fragmented and in many ways more distant now I think… Like insulated cells of people doing their own thing and not necessarily interacting a lot with other people. I think that is also a part of what modern technology does or enables.

In my geographical area there is nothing. I live in a tiny village without any sort of scene or input besides the woodlands outside my doors. My conclusion is that Black Metal is as much underground as a mainstream thing in Norway, in 2024 at least.

SHOM) I know you’ve expressed praise towards the recent Avmakt release to me in a previous conversation, but what are some other albums (or bands) you are currently big on within the BM sphere lately

Peregrinus) The new Avmakt release is fantastic, I thoroughly enjoy that album. It’s in many ways what black metal should strive to be. Simple, somewhat nostalgic sounding but not a copy.  I enjoy quite a bit of what’s going on here in Norway. Vemod, Djevel, Whoredom Rife, the Majestic Mare. And I’m consistently amazed by what my brother from Askesirkel does with his projects: Vorgfang, Altertum, Infernal Winds, etc. And I get to work on those records mixing a lot of them and we also collaborate on numerous projects. It’s a great driving force for my creativity and inspiration. 

There’s a lot of other stuff out in the world that I'm enjoying right now: Medieval Prophecy’s output is fantastic. Blood & Crescent I respect for carving his niche anything Swartadauthuz puts out is always great.

I do wish less bands would try to sound like Sanguine Relic and rather spend a year or two in writing to try and emulate something like KVIST. I think that would make things a lot more interesting, and enjoyable.

SHOM) Is there anything outside of black metal that has your attention?

Peregrinus) To be honest, lately I've been really deep in the archaic sounds of black metal… Maybe even more so than in a long time. Part of the creative process for me is approaching the mixing side of this. And I’ve done a lot of it so far this year and last year.

Keeping it within the circle of close allies between us there’s enough diversity, sonics and atmospheres to keep it ever evolving and interesting.  It’s an ever revolving door of music to approach. My listening time outside of working on something isn’t really giving room for a lot of other music. If it is it’s falling back to classics… early AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Rainbow, some Acoustic guitar stuff, etc.

•  Ω  •

END OF PART. 01—PART. 02 TO COME!

Heraldic Blaze - Blazoned Heraldry (Bandcamp)

Illvilje - Der Nordavinden Danser (Bandcamp)

Hjemsøkt - Om Vinteren, På En Sort Trone (Bandcamp)

Unholy Craft - Saa Mørkt, Saa Mektig (Bandcamp)

KVAD - I Et Uendelig Mørke (Bandcamp)

Sonorous Night (Bandcamp)

Interview with A.A. Nemtheanga of Verminous Serpent (Primordial, The Nest, Dread Sovereign, Blood Revolt…)

This is a more brief discussion that took place over the course of a week with the venerable and fervorous A.A. Nemtheanga with the intention of poking and prodding into the intentions and ideas of his newest group, Verminous Serpent. I had an early listening promo and spent nearly two weeks straight listening to it, munching on their blend of bestial black/death metal which draws from the wells of the underground and early adopters aforementioned below… I intended to have this up a month ago, while 'The Malign Covenant' was striking the anvil hot, but life happened and I gulped down a barrage of work and other responsibilities which halted my progress in getting this up. I digress, it was my pleasure delving into this brief conversation with A.A. and I thank him for his time and patience. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes, so read on and educate.

•  †  •

SHOM) First off, thanks for taking time out of your very involved life to blow some smoke regarding your newest project, Verminous Serpent and the debut album, ‘The Malign Covenant’ out on Amor Fati as of today (while I write this)… Feel free to open this up anyway you'd like.

A.A.) If you like nasty, bestial analog old school black/death metal, go for it… check the link to the album!

SHOM) What is the genesis story of Verminous Serpent, and when and how did this trident of metal veterans come to take its shape?

A.A.) Matt from Malthusian had the idea. He and I were jamming one day during the lockdown, and it came from there. He asked Joey from Slidhr and we started to put things together. No magical mystical meeting, and it took some shape and here we are. 

SHOM) The entirety of ‘The Malign Covenant’ is rife with a primitive and feral energy, sonically the mix of the instruments carries the same weight as a live performance and feels both raw and compelling in the same sense—What was the recording process like on The Malign Covenant? Was there any file trading in the early stages or were most of the decisions fleshed out in person in a rehearsal setting?

A.A.) We rehearsed together, old school. I wont trade files for any band I'm in, and neither are the guys interested in that. Has to be a human process. We hired a good studio, with a live room, went in, set up in the same room, blasted through the album in 2 takes… and used the first. All done in about 4/5 hours maybe. Overdubbed a few guitars and the vocals, mixed it. Done and dusted probably in about 16 hours proper work.

SHOM) Verminous Serpent exists somewhere between the death/black metal canopy—The overarching sound being something unfettered and bestial, do you find a different kind of catharsis in playing this type of sound over some of your other bands? Does this new sound open up different pathways of exploration for you in any creative sense?

A.A.) Not really… my influences for this were the same as they were in 1991/92 starting out with Primordial, we just took a slightly different path. For me it's kinda like returning to where I came from. The catharsis of course exists as we made this in lockdown, its a record full of anger and intensity. The main difference for me is really bass and vocals. I'm always open to creating with new people and in new environments with different goals. Life is short, get busy. 

Photo courtesy of Amor Fati Productions

SHOM) I really enjoyed what came from Blood Revolt—'Indoctrine' exists, in my opinion, as something wholly unique in the space of bestial death metal—Though the "signature" A.A. vocal delivery is still present throughout those songs, did you go into writing everything on 'The Malign Covenant' knowing you were going to explore new territory within your vocals or was it more of a byproduct of what seemed right within the desired tone and sound of Verminous Serpent?

A.A.) Well I knew (we all agreed) it shouldn't have any of my signature vocal sound, and once that was agreed upon… it was just a case of finding this new tone. I took a lot of influence from all the old Brazilian and South American bands, and Eastern European stuff from the late 80's. 

SHOM) This "signature vocal sound" nearly casts a shadow in the closing seconds of the album opener, 'Seraphim Falls', but instead yields to something more primitive and in a higher register. It sounds cool—In the earlier stages of Verminous Serpent were you experimenting with these types of vocal nuances or were you focused on keeping it more orthodox and within the range and influence of the South American and Eastern European stuff of the 80's?

A.A.) Well we all agreed at the beginning that it couldn't be my, what would we call it… signature voice—another band with the same tone, so we had to steer clear of it completely—Yet it also had to not be like my 'brutal' voice in Primordial either, so my intention was to always have this kinda old school obscure old style vocals and after a few experiments I got there. But also to give that tone some diversity as well, mix it up… so it had its own character, and without a doubt also me, but a different side. In the beginning really, we were concentrating on getting the songs together, the vocals weren't really first on the agenda.

SHOM) What were the explored themes and lyrical focus on 'The Malign Covenant'?

Photo Courtesy of Amor Fati Productions

A.A.) Just to set the tone, there is no specific statement being made, they are a texture, but of course dark. They are mainly (vaguely) alluding to religious, medieval occultism, secret societies, etc. But what I also wanted to do was have a flow of words based on the sounds, you might call it Onomatopoeia, a stream of consciousness to convey an overall atmosphere with no real grammatical structure. Which is why on the back of the album the lyrics are all in one long sentence.

SHOM) As a follow-up, could you illuminate the idea behind the album cover?

A.A.) Basically I collect interesting images all the time. I keep them in a folder and when I'm creating something and need an image, you never know, something might make sense… so that's what happened here.

This is if I am not mistaken a pencil drawing created some time in the early 19th century by an artist trying to depict the Black Death coming to the town centuries before. Seemed to make sense.

•  Ω  •

This is where we cut it off, short and sweet—No more, no less. If you got to this point, I thank you for keeping the underground lit! Thanks once again to Amor Fati and Alan. A. for taking the time to engage. Give this monster of an album a listen—One of the years best!

Verminous Serpent - The Malign Covenant (bandcamp)

Amor Fati Productions (bandcamp)

Interview with H. of Oerheks (Silver Knife, Hypothermia, Monads…)

This is a discussion that took place over the course of a week with H.—Lone member in the atmospheric black metal project called Oerheks. I received an early listening promo for 'Landschapsanachronismen' and was levelled by the atmospheric heft and austerity flowing through the two-track demo, so I reached out to H. and bothered him with a series of probing questions in preparation for the album release—which releases today (February 22, 2023)—below is the album for stream through bandcamp followed by our conversation below…

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SHOM) First of all, thanks for taking the time to chew some fat—It’s freezing cold here in Toronto as I’m writing this, what’s the weather been like recently in Kaggevinne, Belgium?

H.) Hi Chris, thanks for the opportunity to talk about Oerheks! We've had some extremely cold weather in the beginning of January, resulting in some magical ice-transformed landscapes, followed by snow, followed by rain, and right now the sun seems to have come back almost right on time for Imbolc.

SHOM) So you already have a very well received debut under your belt in ‘Cagghenvinna’ which saw itself unfurled last year on August of 2022 by the highly regarded Amor Fati Productions and found its way on quite a few year-end lists (including my own)… did the noise around the internet change the way you approached writing for your sophomore demo 'Landschapsanachronismen’? Was there suddenly a feeling to fill expectations or was it done within the same framework as your debut?

H.) It did not, since the second demo was long finished before 'Cagghenvinna' was released. In fact, in the Summer of 2022, about a month before the public release of the first demo, I started working on the fifth Oerheks demo. The third was also completely finished and ready to go to press before Oerheks went public. For the fourth and the fifth release I just have to finish some smaller things, add some stuff and record the vocals. In the past I've fallen into traps created by expectations of a debut recording, and my reaction over the years evolved into always trying having the next release ready before the current one goes to press. It doesn't always work, but so far with Oerheks, it has.

SHOM) Very wild, so you’re quite ahead of yourself in the sense of song-writing—Was this spurt of individual productivity a result of the earlier lockdowns and the free-time that that period gave? And are details like album name/cover already thought of and just locked in the vault until announcement?

H.)  I wouldn't say Oerheks is a result of the lockdown(s), I've always felt the need to record music, whether for bands or solo projects. However, the first recordings for Oerheks did occur in the first lockdown, indeed. Besides isolation, the Spring of 2020 offered incredible weather, giving me the opportunity to go on walks and hikes in my area every day. It gave me the inspiration that would eventually end up in the first couple of demos. 

Album concepts and (working) titles grow together with the songs, and very often are already set in stone before recordings are finished (sometimes even before recordings are started!). The fact that the first three demos were finished before the release of 'Cagghenvinna' gave me time to let the concept and artwork of each release take shape to the fullest. So, in a way they weren't locked away at all, they kept evolving even after they were musically finished. 

SHOM) Now that 'Landschapsanachronismen' has already been heard by thousands of folks through the early demo premier over at the Black Metal Promotion page, could you elaborate on the inspiration and the themes explored within ‘Landschapsanachronismen’?

H.) Just like with 'Cagghenvinna', the theme of the second Oerheks demo is centered around my local area, called Kaggevinne. It's a very small town with a rich history, mostly because of an ancient forest that used to be present here. The forest was called 'Prinsenbos' (or Prince's Forest, named after the Prince of Orange who used to own these lands). Today, only one survivor remains of this forest: the Old Oak of Kaggevinne. A magical solitary oak, with branches curling far and wide into the sky; it truly is a sight to behold in this sloping landscape. 'Lanschapsanachronismen' tells the story of this lost forest, how it got eradicated and how the solitary oak is a mighty yet painful reminder of what once was. 

Photo by @hagatissa

SHOM) Inspiration is often a fickle thing in the work of artistic expression, sometimes we’re caught up in specifics and other times it’s fleeting or ambiguous—Besides the history and landscape of your surrounding area what other forces drives Oerheks sound? 

H.) I'd say it's a deep and unrelenting obsession with the sound of black metal, combined with the ritual-like sensation of recording music in solitude. Inspiration for Oerheks comes when it comes, and usually pretty intensely. Once I start recording, I forget all about reality and time and hours/days seem to pass within moments.

SHOM) As a follow-up, are there any specific albums that directly or indirectly influence your motives with Oerheks?

H.) Indirectly, I'm sure there are a lot. However, there is no direct musical influence to Oerheks. I tried to cut myself off from ideas such as 'making it sound like band X meets band Y' (for example), and chose to let the inspiration come from the inside. In this way, Oerheks is a mix of my past/other current projects and something new all at once.

SHOM) You released your Oerheks debut 'Cagghenvinna' on the same day as fellow-countryman Aerdryk, who was also releasing his first solo debut output, both of which were put out with the support of Amor Fati Productions—How did this take shape and unfold?

H.) CVB and I are close and are in touch with each other on an almost daily basis. Whenever we're working on something new musically, we are each other's main checkpoint. In the process of recording both Oerheks and Aerdryk, a lot of unfinished stages of songs were sent in both directions. We appreciate and need each other's honesty for whatever we're working on. Thus, Oerheks and Aerdryk were growing together; and releasing it together seemed only logical to us. Marius from Amor Fati was immediately up for the idea, and thanks to Addergebroed, we had a double premiere with an interview to promote both releases.

SHOM) Can you provide some background to the album cover on Cagghenvinna and or any surrounding details?  

H.) All my life I've had a minor obsession with maps, especially old maps. In one of my many searches for maps of the area, and maps including variations of the name Kaggevinne, I stumbled upon the one used for 'Cagghenvinna'. To this day, I can't exactly explain why I chose this map and not any of the other ones that were an option, but it somehow struck a chord, and I knew it was the right one.

The map itself shows the area where the current provinces of Antwerp (North), Brabant (South) and Limburg (East, just off-screen) meet. To the east, we can see the nearby town of Diest (once a stronghold of the Prince of Orange) as a walled city, with the Demer running through it like coronary arteries. It also shows Zichem as a walled city, before most of it was destroyed during the Eighty Year's War. North of Zichem, the natural flooding area in the valley of the Demer is marked by diagonally crossed lines. West of Diest and South of Zichem, there's a seven pointed star, which is Scherpenheuvel in its earliest stages of being a town. South of that is the most important element of the map: The Forest of the Prince of Orange. All around are interesting landmarks, like spots labeled 'Justice', with a drawing of a gallows. These are still referenced today on those exact spots, in names of streets and areas.

Ever since the 1970's, Kaggevinne has been split up into two parts. The eastern, more populated part, is part of Diest. The western part, still called 'Prinsenbos' (Prince's Forest) today, is mostly fields and remnants of the ancient forest. It officially belongs to the territory of Scherpenheuvel. I live in that western part. The Old Oak of Kaggevinne is located close to the border of both parts of Kaggevinne.

SHOM) What does the recording process for you normally look like? Do you have any rituals or practices you perform before or after a recording session?

H.) It's usually a pretty impulsive process. I'm a person who doesn't record all too often, strange as that may seem. Yet, when I do, I sink into the process 100% and forget about time, the world and myself. I usually can't stop before most of what's in my mind and inspiration has become a tangible result. Though I usually have ideas and riffs written down, the recording process is still greatly improvisatory. As for preparation rituals, I always try to get enough walks/hikes through the area before and during the recording process.

SHOM) Comparably to Oerheks, your other project Silver Knife has also seen quite a lot of support and praise on a global level—How did this international collective take shape?

A) N. and I kept bumping into each other in the weirdest places, usually when I was on stage with Hypothermia and he was on stage with Laster. We started playing with the idea of doing something together one day. It remained a "one day we will" kind of plan for several years, until I invited N. in the Summer of 2019 to go and record an album with Déhà. We spent two days going over riffs and ideas at my place, then spent two more days recording the album (and the groundwork for the 'Ring' EP), and that's how SK started. Later that year, we asked Pierre (aka Business for Satan) to join us on drums.

Though SK is technically an international band, the term gets wildly less impressive if you see how we don't really live that far from each other at all.

SHOM) ‘Landschapsanachronismen’ launches into a soaring riff straight out of the gate on “Een Eenzaat in het Landschap”. It’s an abrupt start full of energy and feeling which gave me the same feeling as Nocturnal Triumph’s release last year, makes the hair on your neck stand!

Both your releases open with a powerful intensity, do you feel it important to set a pace and tone early within Oerheks? Have you ever explored various intro types?

H.) Well first off, the comparison to Nocturnal Triumph is humbling! I could only dream of writing such unstoppable expressive riffs… 

As for song intros; I love them, and have experimented with them plenty in other projects. It's true that the first two Oerheks demos are filled with songs that start off straight away with little or no build-up at all, but that's just because it fitted the atmosphere of the song. On the next demo, for example, I've played around with intros some more, as it did fit on those songs.

SHOM) Throughout ‘Landschapsanachronismen’ there are moments of what sounds like poetry or a saga in Flemish (?), tonally it gives the album a deeper sense of austerity but could you shed some light on what is being conveyed in these narratives?

H.) These parts are fragments of the lyrics. One wouldn't be able to separate them from the full context of the texts, but as you mention, they offer a deeper look into what is being conveyed. In 'Een Eenzaat in het Landschap', there's a spoken word fragment that goes as follows:

Stap voor stap vestig ik me in dit landschap

Eenzaam, maar vertrouwd

Verloren, maar thuis

Dit landschap vestigde zich in me

I'll try to translate this to the best of my abilities:

Step by step, I am settled in this landscape

Lonely, but familiar

Lost, but home

This landscape has settled inside of me

This section shows the intrinsic, deeply personal side of Oerheks, turning the atmosphere of this landscape unto me. The text goes on to describe a specific path towards the Old Oak. In this sense, the 'Loner in the Landscape', talks about the lonely oak, but about myself as well. 

The spoken word fragment in 'Een Oude Wijsheid Werd hier Geveld' is:

Een oude wijsheid werd hier geveld

Als bloedende lichamen onder de zon

Vloeiend sap, glimmende bijlen

Mijn landschap bloedt

An old wisdom was felled here

Like bleeding bodies under the sun

Flowing sap, shimmering axes

My landscape bleeds

Obviously this refers to the felling of the ancient forest. It's a dramatic turning point in the song, after which the melodies and atmosphere get more aggravated

SHOM) The sound throughout the album is very charged in the sense that it feels grandiose and battle ready—A vast and deep expanse with an ancient wisdom to impart. Listening to the final result, do you feel like you successfully matched the tone in the music with the albums message?

H.) Yes, absolutely. There is a sense of both triumph and tragedy in this release, which is exactly what I wanted it to convey. All in all, I want the listener to be transported to the Prince's Forest, both nowadays and many centuries ago, to witness the majesty that once was. As always, there are some things that aren't perfect and things I'd change. However, this is also why the release is a demo. Oerheks is still forming, still taking shape. Imperfections are a way of the process. I'll learn from these and refine them for future recordings.


SHOM) What aspect are you most proud about on ‘Landschapsanachronismen’? Do you have a favourite moment or riff that stands out to you?

H.) That's a really tough one. From day one in Oerheks, my personal challenge has been to put melodic leads over already melodic riffs, and this is something that really worked out well on Landschapsanachronismen. A new element are the classical guitar intermezzos, which I feel really add something special to the overall atmosphere. Favorite moment or riff, I really couldn't pick, but for the sake of it; let's say the final 4 minutes of the release (classical guitar interlude + final riffs of 'Een Oude Wijsheid Werd hier Geveld')…

Maybe that will motivate people to listen right up to the end of the demo.

SHOM) Let's leave it right here H.—A thousand thank you's again for taking the time to talk music! Feel free to close this out anyway you'd like, floor is yours…

H.) Thanks so much for your time, your effort, your in-depth questions and the opportunity to share my thoughts and words, Chris. 'Landschapsanachronismen' will be available from the Oerheks bandcamp page today, both digitally and on LP. 

LP's will be available from Amor Fati Productions (& distributors), the tape will be available from Babylon Doom Cult Records.Whoever orders the LP from me will get a little extra (to make up for Belgium's ridiculous postage rates).

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Oerheks - Landschapsanachronismen (bandcamp)

Amor Fati Productions (bandcamp)

Interview W/ Negativa (Hässlig, Délirant)

I reached out to D.B. during the tail-end of the pandemic to see if he had any interest in chewing the fat with me about the many projects he's been involved in—Negativa had just put out a new record and it quickly became something I overplayed, which spawned a relatively short discussion as you see it below! D.B. doesn't miss, so check out all of his releases through Negativa, Délirant and Hässlig as well as an ear to the ground with his label Bile Noire… And it goes without saying, if you're not staying up to date with what Mystískaos and Dissociative Visions are releasing, you're just fucking the dog, as far as I'm concerned.

•  †  •

SHOM: First of all, it’s gotta be said that I have thoroughly enjoyed every release you’ve put out thus far under your many banners—Whether it’s through Délirant, Negativa or Hässlig. How is it you manage to put consistent energy into three different bands?

DB: Thank you and glad you enjoyed them.

I think spontaneity / improvisation play a big role in there. My guitar skills are VERY basic and I know nothing of music theory, so when I pick my guitar there is no other plan than playing and recording some "random" riffs. 

I'm sure if I told myself "let's compose some music (specifically) for Negativa instead of simply playing whatever comes naturally, I would have a hard time doing it.

SHOM: A whirring, almost hallucinatory tone seems to penetrate most, if not all of your songs. Is this something that is intentionally done or is it more of a tertiary side-effect when pursuing the type of raw and abrasive sound you have?

DB: It was intentionally done in Délirant as the first thing I did for the album was getting a kind of psychedelic and cavernous sound. Basically, it was inspired by its own production, which worked very nice since I managed to finish the entire thing in 4-5 days.

For the rest of my recordings, I'd say its a non-intentional side-effect.

SHOM: Which one word would you use to describe your general sound?

DB: Negativity? (ha!)

SHOM: If Negativity is the word you’d use to describe your sound, could you say the outcome could be used for positivity? In other words, if negativity was poured into it as a form of creative catharsis, do you believe the listener can use that same energy for their own catharsis?

DB: Well it could be… Only unintentionally though, because you can't "induce a catharsis" with music onto someone else (intentionally), I think—That's something that varies from listener to listener, and only they can feel it... Which is why music is (or should be) made for oneself and not for others.

SHOM: How do you tackle the design/layout for all your releases?

DB: I actually work as layout designer so that part is among the easy ones, specially for my releases which tend to be pretty minimal on purpose. If you want to check out some of my work: @visionsnoires on IG.

SHOM: Negativa already has a staunch black metal album release in 2022, any plans to release a record this year between either Hässlig or Délirant?

DB: Honestly, it's been close to a year since I picked up an instrument for the last time, so it’s hard to say…

There is a second Délirant album already recorded since the last 2 or 3 years, it's just missing vocals... Demotivation and the lack of mental health have made me procrastinate with it forever and I have no idea when that will be finished. Hässlig EP will come out on vinyl soon but no new recordings so far.

SHOM: Is this due to musical burn-out or other outward forces in your life?

DB: A mix of things. Musical burn-out, unhealthy habits, massive lack of motivation and mental health (as I said earlier), as well as myself not doing anything to help it and medication doing the opposite of its job. Being tired of everything in general.

SHOM: Mystískaos and Dissociative Visions are labels that I try to follow pretty closely. How’s it been working within these esteemed parent labels? Would you say you share common goals/aesthetics?

DB: It was all very smooth from the beginning. I sent them a promo for the Délirant album (which was originally an EP under a different name) with no expectations at all. Surprisingly they replied a few days later saying they were interested and we started discussing different ideas like making it a full length by adding another track (a 4th one) and finding a more appropriate name for the project, artwork, etc.

Later on I started talking regularly with the head of MSK / Dissociative Visions, doing some visual work for the label(s) and sharing my music with them. We share similar views, ideas and musical taste at least, and considering they have released everything I've done after Délirant, I guess they like it.

SHOM: Which artwork have you done (excluding your own bands) for Mystiskaos/Dissociative Visions? 

DB: Oh, I haven't done artwork for them. Mostly flyers, some trippy videos for promotion, the Dissociative Visions logo, as well as both MSK and DV websites (which are pretty minimal in design, so not too much to see there).

SHOM: Obviously the Mystiskaos/Dissociative label is heavy with an Icelandic Black Metal approach, would you say your Negativa stuff is directly influenced by this sound or just a slight reflection of it with a host of other influences in the mix?

DB: I don't think so... When I think of "Icelandic BM" the first thing that comes to mind is the production, since most of the stuff coming out from there is produced by the same studio. I mean, all the bands sound exactly the same and I can only relate the term "Icelandic BM" with THAT production, (which got boring pretty fast, but that's another story).

SHOM: If you had to pick out one release of all the releases out through Mystiskaos/Dissociative Visions, which would stand as your most listened to?

DB: Now that's a tough one. Most likely Vonlaus' second EP. Andavald LP would be up there for sure but pretty much all releases are great!

•  Ω  •

SHOM: Thanks again for chewing the fat with me, looking forward to your next releases and hopefully we'll be back for a part two soon enough!

DB: Of course to both! Thanks!

Interview: Dan Sartain

This is a discussion I have been meaning to have for a long, long time. With a musician who has long maintained my curiosity since a girl I was dating at the time threw on 'Join' that beautiful day we got into a car accident in earthly Lake Place, NY. It was fitting. Ever since then my love goes faster than a rocket for Dan…He was brave and kind enough to let me bother the shit out of him for a few days. This is the conversation that took place. 

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SHOM) Hi Dan, before we get too deep and cerebral into our discussion let’s just start with; If you were to write your own epitaph, what would you have it say?

DS) I thought you said we wouldn't get deep this soon! (laughs) All I would want it to say is "Proud Father".

SHOM) This has been bothering me for years, what the hell do you say at the beginning of the song ‘P.C.B. 98’?

DS) "Hey, Shitboy! Whatcha gonna do now?" At the time I was working at Domino's Pizza. I used to work with several gentleman from Turkey. English was their second language, and they hadn't quite grasped the art of curse words. They knew that "shit" could be used as an insult; they also knew that calling someone "boy" is degrading. When they wanted to insult you, they would call you "shit boy". I thought this was an absolutely glorious insult I had never heard anyone else use before. It became an inside joke in the workplace. I was joking around with John Reis, then it became our inside joke. To this day we still call each other shit boy. I don't know man. It was just funny at the time. I didn't think the joke would have legs, but I still say it to this day. 

SHOM) I know you created the crack-whip sound on the Western Hill’s ‘Rawhide’ by slamming a slab of meat from the butcher shop you work at onto a mic’d up concrete floor, so what was the technique for the crack-whip sound on the earlier Dudesblood’s ‘Rawhide Moon’? 

DS) The answer to this one may not be as exciting as you were expecting. We just used some stock sound. 

SHOM) With Western Hills you’re up to 10 studio albums and you’ve had an impressive two-decade run as a heavily DIY lone musician from Beatle burnin’ Alabama, what has been the best and worst part of this experience so far for you? 

DS) You know, the Beatles burning thing is really embarrassing. But there is another side to the story. The man you're referring to was named Tommy Charles. He was a radio DJ in Birmingham for very many years. They never actually burned Beatles records in Birmingham though. The fire marshal shut that down. Any footage you see of burning Beatles records did not take place in Birmingham. Birmingham has a very shameful history, especially in the 1960s. If I may, I would like to play Devil's Advocate on behalf of Tommy Charles. Tommy Charles was a friend to rock and roll. He spun early rock and roll records in my hometown live on the radio as early as rock and roll records were made. I guess you could call him a shock jock. By the time the Beatles came around, rock and roll was 10 years old. I think for guys like Tommy Charles The Beatles represented a Changing of the Guard. For the original rock and rollers, it made them uncomfortable and feel threatened. It seems quite silly now.

As a person from Birmingham that loves old rock and roll records, I've had internal struggles about my feelings for Tommy Charles. On the one hand, he brought rock and roll to the airwaves. On the other, he was kind of an asshole for what he did. I'm a huge Beatles fan but I also have space in my heart for Tommy Charles. I believe at the end of the day he was a show-man. I think the whole Beatle burning thing was a publicity stunt and he didn't foresee this being his lasting Legacy. They never actually burned Beatles records in Birmingham. What he did do was have a lot of Beatles records steamrolled and buried in a small town east of Birmingham called Roebuck. I never met Tommy Charles, but I have many friends that knew him. They said that he had no hate for the Beatles. What he did have was a lot of PT Barnum in him. He just wanted attention and ratings, and he got it. I don't think the criticism of him is unfair, but I do think that it is unfair to paint him as a enemy of rock and roll. 

Birmingham is a weird town. It's my home and I don't really want to live anywhere else. That's not to say that I don't have my problems with it to this day. At this point it's just the devil I know. I've always found it to be cliquey. I never felt fully accepted there. You kind of have to go out a lot and kiss everyone's butt and tell them they're great in order to have people at your shows. It's like a goddamn abusive relationship. But I always come back, and I always love it. 

SHOM) Back in 2014 you and Jacob Turnbloom of Mrs. Magician gave birth to a little side-project that had you release a great two-song EP. Did you guys mean for this to just be a one-off or were there plans for more in the future that have never came to fruition? 

DS) Jacob is a strange guy. I absolutely love him. We have exchanges at least once a week. He always writes me and has these kooky ideas. He's one of the most prolific musicians I know personally. Most of the ideas that he or I have never come to fruition. Sometimes they do. There's a lot of distance between Birmingham and San Diego. I tried to live in San Diego a couple times. It never really worked out. I still feel like my greatest musical soulmates live there. I count Jacob among them. All those Southern California guys are so laid-back it makes me wonder how they get anything done at all. Somehow they always do. I honestly believe that some of the greatest music of my lifetime was created there. Those people are goal-oriented, but super chill at the same time. I guess the two things don't have to be mutually exclusive. When you travel a lot your heart gets spread out. A big piece of my heart will always reside in San Diego.

SHOM) My favourite album cover of all time is Muddy Waters ‘After The Rain’, what’s yours? 

DS) The Geto Boys. We can't be stopped.

SHOM) Your 6th record ‘Too Tough To Live’ was Dan at full down-stroke Ramones mode, would you say this phase came in more as a necessary means of catharsis following ‘Lives’ or was it as simple as you getting a runners high off the down-stroke? 

DS) After we made Dan Sartain Lives with Liam Watson at toe rag Studios, I felt like that was my pinnacle. I learn so much from Liam. After working with him it was like a demon was exorcised. I felt like he got the best out of me in that vein of music. Basically I felt like I couldn't top that. It was time to switch modes completely. I was coming to the end of my twenties and the beginning of my thirties, and I wanted to hang on to my youth. I felt like doing everything harder and faster would be my Fountain of Youth. I allowed myself to nurture my most juvenile thoughts. In a way, that phase of my career also felt like an exorcism. I didn't want to be a whiny emotional arthouse rockabilly kid anymore. I felt the need to prove myself in other ways. To whom I felt the need to prove myself, I don't know. I didn't feel like my previous formula was so precious that I couldn't change it. 

SHOM) I saw an interview with you and a German skeleton during a tumultuous time that had you teary-eyed and honest as hell, so I have to ask, what albums do you think are the envenom for a broken heart? 

DS) that was a tough time for me. I was Rife with inner turmoil. I was going through a breakup and I hadn't realized yet that behaving that way only alienated my friends. I was disappointed that working with The White Stripes didn't really lead to bigger things for me. Now I realize that it was my expectations, and that alone, which was causing my inner turmoil. I was still at a point in my life where I blamed everything else for my problems rather than take accountability for them. I felt like I was expected to always overachieve. Mentally I had to move the goalposts in order to feel like I was winning. I not only looked at music as a competition, but an all out War. I realize now that that was a ridiculous thought. I was taking myself way too seriously. 

To answer your question though, The Ramones brought me out of it. Specifically the demo version of 'I don't care'. It's not like that was my first Ramones phase, but it suddenly hit me like a ton of bricks. That footage you were talking about with the skeleton was actually taken at the Ramones Museum in Berlin. It is a small but staggering Museum. I guess I didn't fully realize the power of simplicity until that point. I also didn't fully appreciate the complexity of what the Ramones were actually doing. It seems simple, but I know very complex musicians that couldn't hang in the Ramones. For instance Clem Burke from Blondie was the drummer for The Ramones for one show before he was fired. Clem Burke is a very respected person in his field. He's among the most celebrated drummers I can think of. He couldn't hang with the Ramones though. 

SHOM) It’s well documented that you have a penchant for all things old and eccentric, is there anything in the modern world you love and champion that might be a surprise to those of us who only know the surface level you? 

DS) I do certainly like old things, old ideals not so much. I don't know how to say this without pussyfooting around the subject… but I like being able to eat in a restaurant and go to movies with black people. 

SHOM) Has your daughter shown an increased interest in music as she gets older? What tunes get her goin’? 

A) my daughter absolutely loves music. Even at Age 3 she has very diverse taste. Friends since one of her favorite songs is Pineapple Princess by Annette Funicello. She likes all that Disney princess stuff too. She's obsessed with the Wizard of Oz and Dorothy, but she also really likes Buddy Holly. I hope she doesn't follow in my footsteps toward a Rock and Roll Lifestyle. I hope for better things for her than that. Rock and roll is fun and everything, but making it your identity the way I did is stupid. 

SHOM) Is there an unexpected moment from any song existing in the ether that you can pin down as your favourite or just something that makes you smile ever time you hear it? I think of Lee Hazelwood’s quip at the end of the song ‘Greyhound Bus Depot’ of “Look at her standin’ there with chilli all over her dress... if I knew her better I’d get her a puppy.” 

DS) once a song is recorded and published, I don't ever want to listen to it again. By the time my songs reach the ears of the public they are dead to me. Occasionally I'll listen to them so that I can remember how to play them live, but they aren't a part of "Who I Am" anymore. My latest recording is always my favorite. I got to work with one of my favorite artists, Ganksta Nip. Nip has become a friend of mine over the years. He is a rap Legend. I've gotten to work with many great artists throughout the years, but this guy invented an entire sub-genre of rap music. He has gold and platinum records on his walls, but somehow I never made it out of the Underground. Our Song "Where is Candyman" is currently my favorite song. Until the next one. 

SHOM) How did the collaboration with Ganksta Nip come about? You’re not the type to be bogged down by comfort-zones and all but did working with thee progenitor of Horrorcore feel like it came with its own set of unique intimidations and limitations or did you just make like Alan Vega and do whatever the fuck your wanted to?

DS) His real name is Rowdy. I think we're on a first-name basis now, (laughs). We've been friends for several years now. I was a fan of his before I even knew about him. Let me explain. He wrote some of the best music for The Geto Boys. I suspect that he ghost wrote a lot more songs that I like that he wasn't credited for. I've always been a big fan of rap, but I respected it as an art form enough to stay out of it. Until now. I always wanted to work with Rowdy, but I could never come up with a good enough idea to justify making it happen. I attempted to work with him several times, but the ideas I had weren't good enough. When the trailer for the new Candyman movie came out, I wrote him to get his thoughts on it. He seemed as excited about it as I was. It's a good trailer. I hope the movie is just as good. When I knew that we were both excited about Candyman returning, I guess I knew it was time to make something actually happen. I didn't really want to rap, but I didn't feel like a guitar sample was a good enough reason to put my name on the release alongside his. I decided to step up to the plate and try to rap. Who cares if I get made fun of. Who cares if I sound out a place. I'm secure enough in my place as an artist to step out of my comfort zone, as you said. I'll rap in my car. I'll rap in the shower. Why not do it in front of a microphone?

I knew if I put my name on it, a small but loyal fanbase would pay attention. I've got to work with lots of great musicians, but Rowdy invented something. He invented something that people still copy, even if they don't know it's him They're copying. He's still putting out good material. He might be better than he ever was. I know he feels he is. Some of his newer work is some of his best. I just want more people to know about him. He said some pretty crazy stuff. He's just a normal guy though. He likes horror movies and video games just like everyone else. He has a unique gift. I think he really stands apart from his peers. I respect him as a poet. I know that's really strange to say considering his lyrical content. I find beauty in it. I find humor in it. I love that he has no filter at all when it comes to writing lyrics. I just wish he had a wider base. He has gold and platinum selling records on his wall, but he still remains unknown to many people. I find that unacceptable. If there's anything I can to get his name out there, I'm going to do it. I've never really tried to be an artist that made political statements. I really respect artists that do, I just never wanted to be one.

This Record came out the same week the riots happened due to George Floyd's death. Where is Candyman is not a political song in in any way. It just happened to coincide with the movement that is currently happening. As shallow as the song is, I felt it was our message of racial Unity. At the end of the day, it's just a couple of guys that really like Candyman. The time frame in which it came out is coincidence. We could have made this 6 years ago, or six years from now. I'm glad it came out when it did. It was not intended to be a statement, but Rowdy and I both acknowledged the significance of it in that way.

SHOM) Songs like ‘Mr. Shorty’ by Marty Robbins, ‘A Boy Named Sue’ by Johnny Cash, ‘Talkin’ Karate Blues’ By Townes Van Zandt and of course Alli Guthrie’s ‘Alice’s Restaurant’ all tell of a peculiar story in a sort of a spoken word delivery, do you think you have a song that strikes the same vain? Do you have a favourite within this style?

DS) My speaking voice isn't raspy or cool enough sounding to do something like that. I did try to hire someone to do something like that for Western Hills though. We asked several genre actors to do a song like this with me for Western Hills. We approached William Shatner, and all kinds of people. At one point, Tom Wopat was going to do it. Those talks dissolved, along with our album's budget. If we ever hear back from William Shatner, or Lee Majors, I'll make it happen.

SHOM) Besides the current state of things, what’s stopping you from playing that show at Pasquale’s Pizza? Any chance We’ll get to see you in Canada again or is the chance fat?

DS) I would be too busy stuffing my face to play a show at Pasquale's (laughs). As far as Canada goes I rule nothing out! If you're going from coast to coast in America, playing shows along the Canadian border makes a lot more sense sometimes.

SHOM) Have you got your ears to the ground on the Australian punk scene at all? There’s something in the well water out there, they’re no Hot Snakes but Eddy Current Suppression Ring is getting things done!

DS) I don't know much about any scene anymore. I knew I would get old one day and become out of touch, what I didn't know is that I wouldn't care if I was out of touch.

SHOM) This isn’t a question, just wanted to thank you for turning me into the demo version of ‘I Don’t Care’, it’s so dismissively snotty and primitive!

DS) It's one of those things that is so simple, you hate yourself for not coming up with it. Even though that song was written before I was born, I'm envious of how stupid and effective it is.

SHOM) Chuck Berry once duckwalked his way over to you at a Casino show when you were a youngster and sang to you, do you think that had a significant impact on you in anyway?

DS) I wasn't that young. I was 25ish when that happened. He was already my hero at that point. I did see Jerry Lee Lewis when I was really young. He came out and played the halftime show for a minor league football team in Birmingham. I didn't really care at the time. I think I just wanted the cheerleaders two come back out. (laughs)

SHOM) How have you been spending the last 5 months besides putting out a new record and running a historical barbershop? Any silver linings to this strange time for you to draw upon? 

DS) Life has become incredibly difficult for me during this time. I'm facing some of the most heavy obstacles I've ever faced. My needs mean very little in the grand scheme of things. I did get to record and you record at Sun Records in Memphis, which was a dream come true. I haven't really been the same person since we did it. It made me feel like anyting in the world that I want is at my disposal. It made me feel like I can manifest anything I put my mind to. If this is the end of the world, arrivederci, baby. I had a blast.

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SHOM) I ended our few days of messaging back and forth with the following:

Let's steer this runaway tram back home, Dan! Any final thoughts, feelings, complaints or grievances you's care to impart on to the lost souls of the world? Again, a big thanks for taking some time to chew some fat with me, and thanks for the music. Keep sane and happy with your loved ones and good luck with the Hippodrome, until I hear from you again…


DS) Right on, Chris! If I figure it out I'll let you know. I'm just in the same boat as everyone else. Writing has always been my outlet, and I'm doing more of that now. My best to you and yours. Thank you for your thoughtful questions, it's nice to know that people are still paying attention to me after all these years!

Dan released an album this year and as always it's well worth your time, energy, money and complete focused concentration.

Here is the "Where is Candyman?" song released this year by Ganksta Nip and Dan Sartain:

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